SC: What are your earliest memories of Portland roads here?
LH: it would be about 1956 or 1957 I would say. We were living at Portland roads, sorry, Old Lockhart mission. My father was captain of the Mary Lockhart – the boat – the cargo boat that comes here.
SC: And how was that spelt Mary Lockhart? So he was the skipper.
LH: He was the skipper of the boat and we would catch a trip to Portland roads to get cargo and then they take it back (there used to be a big jetty and we used to run along the jetty every time)
SC: Oh yeah
LH: we would come up to where the two old mango trees are now – there used to be a shed
SC: those ones over there?
LH: yep
CA: in front of the old Post Office?
SC: yeah
LH: yes and sometimes we would come a day early and we’d anchor off Restoration Island out there or we come here and play in the shed, waiting for the bigger boat to bring in the cargo
SC: so how long did it take you to come from Old Site to here? Was it a full day trip or
LH: sometimes we would leave about five, six o’clock in the morning, and we would get here about nine or ten (about that time). Sometimes if the barge (or the boat that brings in the cargo), they would drop the cargo in the sheds and they would come over and pick it up.
SC: Oh yeah
LH: Or we would come a day early, or in the afternoon. Camp at Restoration Island and anchor there and come in the morning and pick up the cargo from there.
CA: so how often would they come over, to get the supplies?
LH: once week, sometimes twice a week or every fortnight. Depends on how many cargo to pick up.
CA: that was all supplies for old Lockhart, all the groceries?
LH: yes, all the supplies.
SC: and, that was the closest place to Old Site that you could land wasn’t it because this was the only area that, the only area, that you could offload.
LH: yes – on the jetty, no other area
SC: and your father what was his name he was?
LH: Arthur Douglas Pascoe, yes
SC: and so was your land here, or old Lockhart or did you get moved?
LH: this is all our country, Kuuku Yau country really goes up to Claudie River, to the south there, and up to Olive River on the south side, the south bank of the Olive River, the Kuuku Yau country, but now that people been getting land back, you get families that getting land back, you get families that are from certain area, that are now claiming their area back. But before all this was Kuuku Yau Country right up to the Olive River.
SC: And did different families have bits of land or did you all share
LH: Yes, families have different areas but we share because we’re Kuuku Yau clan.
SC: So you all had different land but
LH: Before everybody knows where they came from – they from a bigger clan and they have certain areas of their own.
SC: yeah and so you can, when you walk along here, you remember what it was like before
LH: Yes, there was hardly anything here, only the jetty and 1 or 2 houses.
SC: Yeah
LH: There was only one home, I think that was the guest house (not sure – mission?), but the shed was there. There was a house anyway, I don’t think it was exactly where the guest house is now.
SC: Lot smaller
LH: Lot smaller, and I remember the shed, that where all the cargo go, ‘cos we were camping in another room, cargo was in another room. Yeah, there was bush little beach
SC: And was the mangroves still there, or have they grown
LH: I think they’ve grown more, but I remember sometimes we’d go underneath the mangroves – there used to be nice sand underneath.
SC: oh right
LH: We go and sit down and cook ashes damper, and fish, and things like that
SC: and that would be nice and cool to
LH: yes, much nicer there but there were still sandflies
SC: ha ha some things don’t change as this was always sandflies there wasn’t it
LH: yes, always. And I remember where that tank is now (the spring), we would always get water from there
SC: so it would have been just a spring
LH: Yeah
SC: yes
LH: sometimes my dad would have a couple of men with him of course, and the other skipper was old Billy Warradoo
SC: so he, they swapped over
LH: yes, sometimes came together with other young men they have them to take all the cargo from the shed here, take to the wharf, to the jetty where the boat was anchored
SC: and that was all carried by hand – you wouldn’t have had any
LH: Carried by hand, I remember they carry bag, sack bag of flour, things like that
SC: did you come up here any other times or mainly just when the cargo boat
LH: only cargo boat at that time but it was later when we were a bit grown-up that, when my father worked for the full croc shooting. Not many people had boats (dinghy) at that time.
SC: Oh yeah
LH: they have travelled through here by dinghy, few people built dinghies at Old Mission
SC: new oh yes
LH: and that’s when from the croc shooting, the money they make, they get motor, Seagull – outboard motors the Seagulls and Evinrude, Johnson
SC: yes yeah, Seagulls don’t exist any more
LH: no, they had this long shaft
SC: Oh yes
CA: (showing photo)
LH: Well there it is
CA: so that’s – I’m not sure what year this is
SC: no I think that was in the 60s do you reckon that would be in their hard to say I suppose
CA: it’s probably – I could probably find out but that’s yeah so there was a, should there –
just wondering what what there was
LH: there was another shed out there too
SC: on the end of the jetty yeah
LH: End of the jetty there was another shed
CA: yes – I’ve got another photo, this is the photo from the places website
SC: it’s funny looking at that photo with no trees on the hill at all
LH: no, no trees at all – I did remember that beach though
SC: more rocks
LH: I think more rocks than now I think there were mostly mangroves on the other side
SC: oh yes
CA: that was from
SC: oh so that’s the other’s shed you are talking about
LH: that that other shed there
SC: and that was where, did they store stuff in there, or was that?
LH: sometimes it put in there, but mostly it was (if we’re not here – if the boats not here, then they bring it over and leave it in that shed in front of the old Post Office)
SC: and how long did your father do that for
LH: ah about 2 to 3 years
SC: and then he moved onto croc shooting?
LH: he moved onto croc shooting then
SC: because these would have been a lot of crocs here then
LH: Mmmm, plenty
SC: did you have, were they just here or did you have to go
LH: early 60’s then, the 60’s. They got people from the mission to do croc shooting and it was all those people from south from Old Mission – they go down that way to their country and few old men come up this area from Old Mission and at that time we were also travelling by lugger for school holidays, Christmas holidays all that, travel and camp in areas, but some families are from certain areas so we all full up in the lugger.
SC: Oh okay
LH: they all Kanthanampu people – so we stayed Quintel beach there – we camped there cos some people are from there. But it was really local old people taken to each place. Because the boat would have to go back and take people from the mission to go south. We stayed for a couple of days and they come back and take us from there to here. Some of them come to Chili, or we skip Chili and go straight to Pascoe or Yum Yum – it goes like that
SC: yeah
LH: And sometimes we go right up to Shelburne Bay, there are people from there too
SC: okay
LH: some people are from there, then coming back we camp along the way and our holiday is very, very long one.
CA: so, was the lugger going up anyway, was it doing, delivering things
LH: yes and if anybody short for anything, they give them list, they tell them. Well we got ration at that time, no money
SC: they just got food from the government for
LH: yeah
SC: yeah
LH: so, people tell he crew, can you bring back some tea, or sugar, or whatever, and the next trip come up, they bring all that stuff back
SC: yeah
LH: people don’t use to go back in that lugger because it’s only the crew. People like to spend more time in their country.
CA: so it was just in school holidays you could get out there.
LH: Eh
CA: so just in school holidays, you could get a lift, special occasions
LH: No this is, umm, like people getting back to country, well that was like taking us back to our country
CA: yeah
LH: and we would sort of school finish about October / November, I think and we have October November December and all that time, but we didn’t have only one lugger we had about four
SC: oh okay
LH: it would take people down south, the Umpila people and they would come up here and some time they would drop, say certain people that come from Pascoe River, they would stay there and drop them off and then take others to Shelburne Bay or wherever Temple Bay
SC: yeah
LH: What I remember is mostly we would go stay at the certain areas together. Say in Yum Yum or Chili then in a couple days the boat come back. We stay a couple of nights, then they take us down to the Pascoe – stay there may be one week or two. We move around enjoying our country.
SC: so, sorry, would everyone congregate at the Pascoe, would everyone go together at the Pascoe
LH: yes
SC: and that was a sort of like a, was that like a meeting place for everyone, or just certain families
LH: the people go back to their own country now from wherever they had been taken
SC: yeah, ‘cos that was a long time ago – they got taken from the country down to Old Site
LH: all along the coast from Shelburne Bay north to Massey River to the south
SC: and everyone got squashed into Old Site?
LH: yeah even from Wenlock some from Coen
SC: right
LH: from the south and from the north they all got in there in Old Mission. All from different clans, they had Claremont Village, Pascoe Village, Wenlock Village, Night Island Village
SC: oh okay so each clan had their own village
LH: yeah
CA: at Old Site?
LH: Mmm
SC: and what, I mean, that would have been pretty horrible, was it or?
LH: Well I wasn’t even born when they were brought there. I hear from my grandmothers – yeah – they always yarning night time and when we are going to sleep they yarn us all the stories – language and stories of before time, passed down to us, so we yarn them to our kids, goes on and on.
What really happen before, they were all gathered together in a mission (Old Site). Sometimes they can’t catch them,
but they have the trackers, see, that know the country well. Some people wanted to walk back to their country where they were picked up from.
SC: yeah
LH: That was long ago but it was real, the most thing I remember is when, every time we pull up in certain areas everyone would start crying, you know, get back home now. I don’t know why they taken from here for, but they cry in language, yeah, I still remember very strongly, that’s why I fought very hard to get my land back. Sort of got stuck in there.
SC: and that would have been your grandmothers?
LH: yeah, my grandmothers – I haven’t seen my grandfathers.
Maybe when I was little, but I can’t remember. All I know is I grew up with my grandmothers and every time we go along the coast here, you know as soon as you come round the point and they, say like coming round this point here, looking at the area, they would start crying, “we back home now” (in our Kuuku Yau language)
CA: they talk about, like, their history that I’ve read was the people (on the Internet) that people were moved to protect them from opium dealers and things like the Chinese, who were here from the gold mines.
Did you hear about that?
LH: No, protecting them from what?
CA: from, from opium
LH: opium?
CA: yeah that was the excuse that moving people into the mission. It was an opium law, to protect people from the opium
LH: haven’t heard of that
CA: no, interesting isn’t it like it was an excuse at the time
LH: no one ever heard of that, never
CA: it was about the 18, the gold-mining, back in 1800 late 1800s. I think there was a lot of Chinese here, and so that’s when.
When was the mission form? Do you know?
LH: that’s a good question. But could look up ABM yeah, ABM Aboriginal Board of Mission Church of England, Anglican have to look that up, but then again they were probably never put something like that they don’t want to print
[http://www.melbourne.anglican.com.au/mission/Agencies/Pages/ABM.aspx]
SC: no – yeah, sort of written down history is, it’s the people who are in power, who are always writing it isn’t it – so you don’t get a full story
LH: no, you don’t. They protect themselves.
SC: yeah
LH: even though they are a Christian people
SC: so when
CA: 1934 1934, the Aboriginal Protection Restriction of the Sale of Opium Act 1897 – that was excuse to put people at Lockhart (this is the visual arts Council Queensland website)
SC: so that was what they said was the reason
CA: yeah, that was the government act they used as the excuse. Ah no it says, hang on, it says Lockhart River was established in 1924 and in 1934, people were rounded up throughout the Cape. But during the war Europeans were evacuated and then the indigenous people were left to fend for themselves, and in 1947 it was re-established, and then underwent drastic changes, as diverse language groups were sourced into a single community. Then in 1971, moved to where we are now.
LH: it was 1969
SC: was it?
LH: it was 1969 that we moved over, as I remember my family and I were the last ones to move from Lockhart mission. My husband, Joseph, his grandmother Nellie Siev and grandfather Harry Siev, Rosemary Siev (adopted) and Novina my first child.
CA: okay – didn’t want to go?
LH: no – my husband was working at the store, so they had to send some of the people over. The old people were left there for the next trip to come. Some, just didn’t want to move. So we had to stay there ’til, you know, the food line because of the store to feed the old people – Lorraine, Grace, Ina
CA: Do you want to tell us the story you are telling me how it was you and Christine used to hide so you didn’t have to go back to the lugger
LH: who?
CA: was it Lorraine? You are telling me how you used to hide in the cargo boat.
LH: Lorraine – my sister yeah
CA: Stories like that are always good
LH: Gracie and Ina and sometimes my brothers to would come (Jeffrey Pascoe and Benjamin Pascoe)
SC: sometimes you’d all hide on the island would you?
LH: yes, we would go and sleep on the boat, then come the morning, we know very well that they have to leave early about 5 or 6. We’d say “Can’t go, we’re sleepy”. Alright then
SC: and so what would you, would you stay on the island for the week or would they come back.
LH: no, on the boat and the boat would come back to Port
SC: oh, oh okay.
LH: but sometimes we would come a day earlier or night, and camp at Resto, and then come across to get the cargo.
CA: can you tell us about what you like to do at Resto – did you go fishing or exploring.
LH: yes we camped, there was nothing there. You camped there on Resto, do fishing and that. Then early in the morning we get on the dinghy to go to the boat and come over here. Get all the cargo and go back. We used to get the barge about midday or afternoon depends
SC: so that was late in 1957, 58
LH: yeah
SC: and after that did you keep coming back here
LH: oh yeah, kept coming back
SC: and when did a lot of hippies living along the back of Chili Beach. When did they sort of turn up there – was that a long time later wasn’t it?
LH: that was long time later.
SC: mid 70s was it?
LH: would be about 76, because we were here now at the new mission.
SC: would there have been more roads started to come in then? Was their cars coming?
LH: Yes, not much though.
SC: still no cars
LH: not much cars at that time. The road wasn’t really open.
SC: so did the hippies come by boat?
LH: No, they were driving, but we hadn’t seen the road when we came by boat. Well the road wasn’t open like it is now.
SC: yeah just very rough.
LH: very rough and narrow.
SC: how, what did people, did you and the hippies mostly get on well, did you mind them being there
LH: there are a couple came in every time to do shopping and for me I never even talk to them, cause I don’t know them.
SC: Oh okay.
LH: only very few people, sort of made friends with them, and that’s when we heard they were smoking marijuana, gunja, whatever they call it.
SC: changes all the time.
LH: yeah, but few people start making friends with them I think they introduce them to gunja, I wouldn’t say that I’d really know them, or anything, but when we come to Chili for fishing or something, they would be along the beach – walking, lava lava or sarong or whatever. Then a few years after, in the 80s now, late 80s, that’s when we sort of known them, because they will come along to the market we had markets here at the round house.
SC: oh yeah I heard about that yeah.
LH: they call it the full moon market
CA: that was here at Portland roads
LH: yes, at the Roundhouse mmm
SC: and what was, what was, was there any building at the Roundhouse then or was?
LH: Only that one – the old round one. And umm getting back to country, that was when we stayed down, bit further, down near the mangroves in tents. The ATSIC, they provided us, well we didn’t see the money but we put it in order what we wanted, tents and that. We had house tents, had about four.
SC: and that was, did you, that was just when the markets were on all was it nothing to do with the markets
LH: nothing to do with the markets. Start new
SC: oh yeah and howl long did you do that for
LH: it was about in the late 80s early 90s we started coming out here. We were going down to Chili. We always camp at the outer end of Chili where the rocks are, this site a bit, we had boats then, we had Kuuku Yau boat then.
LH: We would come up here and that’s where we put our tents. From the Roundhouse, but further down, near the mangroves. And that’s where we stayed. We always came up, stayed there, and some people would go in do shopping and come back out again, but at that time we had our boat with our outboard and we would go in for the day, or whatever we would just go along the coast. The boys would go hunting. Just live out here.
SC: so how long do that sort of go on for – a few years? Did you just come out and go back into a new site. Or stayed out here?
LH: we stayed out here. Only go into shopping and sometimes bad news – we go into funerals, stay there for a week. And then come out again. And then we decided to move up to the Roundhouse then some people stayed there. There was only a few of us at that time. All that Chili area where the, on the other side where Zac and them used to stay – still hippies around then. That’s when we sort of got to know them now. There were a few staying down there.
CA: so what happened at the markets? Did you guys make things for the markets or just the hippies?
LH: no, no it was for all of us – anyone could come, people would come out.
CA: did you sell things, what did you make?
LH: make beads and that. But mostly Sheree (old Geoff’s wife) was making all that. And we have the prawn trawlers out here that came with prawns. Sell for a dollar or we have barbecue with – and grog.
SC: That’s when there when there was featured prawn trawlers, lots of them.
LH: yeah – there was always a few – yes a few prawn trawlers.
CA: so who was buying the stuff – just each other?
LH: people – just buying things.
CA: people come on yachts and things?
LH: some, yes I remember some people coming. ‘cos I remember sitting under the tree – there was one time and a couple, they said to me “it’s good to be back on the land”, I think somebody was selling bread. Because they asked me down the front there, “is there any shop here? We want to get bread, because we’re sick and tired of cooking on our cooking our own bread on the boat”. I can’t remember who was selling then – Jim and Sandy were there. That’s when we got to know them there.
SC: was that when they were up at Idlewild.
LH: yes. Because they used to come down and find us when we are camping in the tents. House tent, big one, can fit about 10 people I think. And we had four. There there was only a few of us come out.
SC: but everyone else stayed in town did they?
LH: yeah – some had jobs in that. That’s when we started.
SC: fighting for, to get the land?
LH: yeah, started talking about it and get back to country you know.
SC: is it true that a lot of the young kids don’t want come back to country now?
LH: some don’t want to now – I think because of because of, they on drugs, and you got more vehicles now that the road is much better, they just drive. And I think it’s up to the parents, if they want to bring their kids out when they are smaller. I think it’s really, you sort of connected into that town now. Modern life – it’s got everything.
SC: it sort of easier, sort of, it’s not – umm towns are easy to easier to live in because everything is easy. It’s not really fulfilling but.
LH: no and though we got TV, everything is there. But out here you have to go and get your food. It really depends on people. You can’t force people to come out to country.
SC: Yeah
LH: Maybe we, for us, like me, when we grew up that way, we like to go up and provide for ourselves. You have to get up early to make fire, you have to go fishing so you can get your feed. Or whatever? Whereas in town, if you’re tired of steak, you get chips, whatever – and the phone.
Everything is changing.
But some people, young ones like my grandchildren they would say “come on Nan, we go out now” you know to Port or to Pascoe.
Got a vehicle, you know it’s not hard like it was before.
But I’ve still got plans to take them all up north show them country not only the sea, coastal country but inland to. They know their bush food, yes, pretty well. So they won’t go hungry. Our young ones, if we don’t show them bush tucker or teach them our language, we’ll lose our culture.
SC: We see, if anyone comes out from Lockhart they will stop at that Sea Lemon tree – everyone looks there.